This page was written with TMP in mind, not as an all-out encyclopedia on the Stoner Weapon System!

The Stoner Weapons System (SWS) occupies a prominent position in TMP. Of course, I have no doubt that some PD's have deleted this system from their campaigns for various reasons, but I won't digress into that just yet.

Instead, I'll start with some notes & corrections to the Stoners as they appear in the first and third editions of TM 1-1 (I have never seen a "second edition" TM 1-1, but apparently they do exist).

In the first edition, the drawing of the Stoner M23 Carbine is of the so-called "Dutch model". Note that the folded stock is like that on the MP-40. There were only about 60 of these models made by Mauser who converted them from the standard style "wire" folding stock. The wire folder is shown in the third edition of the rules. The Dutch model as shown also had a 1 in 8" barrel twist rather than the normal 1 in 12". Thirty three of these "Dutch carbines" have been reimported to the US as pre-86 dealer samples.

The feed device listed for the Mk23 and the M207 is a 150-round belt. The 150-round hanger box is illustrated with the drawing of the Mk23 in the 1st edition rules, while the 3rd ed. version seems to show the 100-round box hanger. There was also a 150-round drum made, and other conversions (RPD drums and M249 hanger boxes for example) are known. A slew of hand-made, experimental boxes & drums were put together, including 200-round boxes and drums.

The image of the Mk23 in the 3rd ed. TM 1-1 is in fact an M207 type configuration. The drawing of the Mk23 in the first edition, while a bit crude, is accurate.

There were both aluminum and steel 30-round mags made for the rifle & carbine versions, as well as 5-round mags.

There are many variations of the SWS. There were both right & left belt feed systems for the MG's, and there was an improved version of the system (Model 63A vs. the older Model 63 system). Many of the parts between these versions are NOT interchangable.

There were several scope mounts made, including STANAG and quick-release versions. More recently, a special ACOG scope was made for the rifle versions. There were also different grenade launcher sights developed.

The SWS can be screwed into the weapon firing port sockets in the V-150, etc. This is not at all surprising considering that the SWS was manufactured by Cadillac Gage!

The belt-fed versions use different links than the M249 SAW does, but can be converted to use the SAW-style links instead.

The Stoner rifle & carbine can utilize standard M16-type bayonets.

The wire stock was used mostly on the "dutch Carbines" but a few were also used on Mk23 Mod O's in Vietnam.

The first Stoner 63 prototype was made in 1963. Production of the 63 version was completed in 1966, and then the 63A production began. Mk23 production began in 1969. Production of the SWS ended in the early 70's.

Overall, the SWS is generally rated as a very good weapon that provided a lot of firepower. It's main drawback was that it needed a lot of maintenace attention. There were a few other problems that were corrected between the 63 and the 63A versions.

• M207/M63 only: 5.31kg
• 100-round plastic ammo box, full: 1.5kg
• LMG, sling, bipod, and 100-rnd box: 7.35kg
• Bipod: .4kg
• Sling: .14kg
• Bipod case: .14kg

• OAL: 102cm (116cm with M7 bayonet)
• Sight Radius: 56.5cm
• Rifling: 1 in 12" (30.5cm) RH
• Cyclic ROF: Variable 700-1,000rpm
• Max Sustained ROF: 75-125rpm
• Max Effective ROF: 150-200rpm
• Max Effective Range: 1100m
• Max Range: 2653m

STONER 63: 2,400

STONER 63A: 850

STONER 63A-1 "Dutch model": 60, made from Std. 63A's.

XM207: two versions made, no production numbers available

Mk23: no numbers available, but I would guess 100 or fewer- maybe a lot fewer.

Stoner 63A (Knight): 100 (These were Stoner 63A's made with new Knight Mfr. receivers.)

The US government figures show 2,750 63 and 63A's have been destroyed by the government in the last few years. (The twenty or so that were in SEAL Team 2's inventory were among those.) These present a good opportunity for the PD to say that they weren't *really* destroyed, but instead went to TMP.

Fifteen Knight 63A's (5 MG's and 10 rifles) went to Thailand in 1991.

33 "Dutch" Stoners were reimported into the US as pre-86 dealer samples. Including those, there are roughly 190 Stoners (all models) in Class 3 hands in the US.

Much of this info I picked up from Machine Gun News, primarily Volume 9, Number 11. This issue also includes a poster showing all the major SWS variants. MGN has been out of print for several years, although it has to some degree been replaced by Small Arms Review.

Mongo's 63A site was full of good info, images, etc.

The various editions of The Armory/Edge of the Sword by Kevin Dockery.

Small Arms of the World by Edward Ezell.

The Morrow Project TM 1-1, 1st and 3rd ed.

"Navy SEALs" video from Simitar (sic) Productions (Mediocre at best but some interesting Mk23 footage)

A much better video which includes the footage mentioned above, is "The Stoner Machine Gun: A Navy SEAL Remembers" from Brentwood Home Video, ISBN 1-57119-274-3.

Another video, Dillon Precision's excellent "Firestorm in the Desert" (aka Machine Gun Magic") has footage of one of the few Mk23's in civilian hands. No technical info really, but you can see it in action. The video also shows off many other fully-auto weapons blasting away, including miniguns. *drool*

Kevin sent me an email or two after reviewing this page. I hope to have more of Kevin's input available, but for some reason when I send him email he doesn't seem to receive it.

"I read with some interest the article on the use of the Stoner system in the Morrow Project. Since I put the weapon in the game, I think I may speak with some authority here. The reason the weapon system was placed in the game was that Morrow Industries effectively owned Cadillac Gage. The line was shut down in 1971 and the materials moved to another location and production begun again. If Reed Knight can do it, so can Bruce Morrow.

"Some of the numbers quoted in the article are interesting as I have a large collection of the records and info on the Stoner. Here are some notes; The under folding stock, which was in SEAL hands, I know, I have one, was the strongest of the series... The 150 round plastic box was used because it is the fastest to reload with. All of the MP Stoners can use the ammunition belts from the M249. The weapons in the Project were chosen because the ammunition was available from Government sources. No 10mm's or other new stuff because the Project was to support the US forces and would draw supplies from them. The revolvers were to take police ammunition and the .44 was kind of an aberration. By the way, there is now a 48-round drum available for the Atchisson, Max (Atchisson) sent me a tape showing it."